Read more about Cyberpunk 2077➜ https://cyberpunk2077.mgn.tv
0:00 – Introduction
1:39 – RPG systems design
4:05 – Most RPG systems are terrible
8:13 – The Cyberpunk 2077 way
10:00 – Character creation
10:55 – Attributes
12:40 – Skills
14:57 – Perks
16:22 – More specifics
19:40 – Additional systems
20:51 – Limitations and problems
24:05 – Conclusion
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I largely agree with your points in this video. I think Cyberpunk's underlying systems are mostly solid, though some of the execution might be lacking.
While it's true that you can sometimes pivot playstyle off of the same attributes, if at some point later in the game you find yourself wanting to experiment with different perks and playstyles, you're often flat out of luck because you won't meet the attribute requirements to pick them. For this reason I feel like the game needs an attribute reset button just as much as a perk one.
Beyond that, the only real criticism I can point against the game is the fact that it was clearly released too early. Aside from bug fixing, it feels as if some of the combat systems weren't finished on release, and the lack of cosmetic body modification/character creation once the game has started is jarring in a game world which otherwise emphasizes extreme degrees of cosmetic body modification.
Cool vid! It would be nice to see more such stuff in the future.
I agree that the system itself is a good system, however the actual perks in the system are pretty bad for the most part, mostly just flat % increases in a certain stat, like it would be cool if in handguns tree you unlocked a perk to dual weild (like seriously Jackie can dual weild but you can't? unless I missed something), or a sniper perk that if you headshot killed someone their head explodes for some additional aoe dmg, just anything more interesting than something like deal 10% more dmg while behind cover.
Wait, what?! A non-LOL video? Let's give it a go 🙂
Cyberpunk 2077 is a good game unfortunately they lied about so much stuff in advertising that I will never recommend it to a friend.
I'm sorry for your taste
I love this quick analysis of system design, I am convinced of all of your points 🙂 when they fix all the bugs and problems the only thing that I am slightly underwhelmed with in CP77 is that quite a lot of the perks feel quite underwhelming. Similar to skyrim, fallout and PoE. The power comes more from the items/spells you use alongside the passive stat modifiers rather than unlocking really interesting stuff. Like you hit level 6 in league and you get an ultimate ability (for the most part), RPGs are really missing out on like once you hit a certain levels on different skills you unlock the skill to do something really next level cool. Kind of like the borderlands action skills but maybe further into progression or something idk. Also felt like there wasnt a super satisfying evil bastard corporate route, felt I was stuck in the logic of "you were betrayed by these people you should take them down with crime" sort of path. idk why i commented this.
Thank you for showing this game some love. There have been so many distractions with all the bad PR it's gotten and it really is an enjoyable game.
I think this video is a great example of how an rpg should be fun when you think about it logically, but actually ends up being bland and boring. I am not sure if it's because the implementation and execution was bad even though the rational behind these system was well thought out. Or because you can't equate fun with logic. But personally I thought the game systems were boring and a lot of the options did not seem to have any added value.
What do you think of the system in Divinity Original Sin 2 where your party members can have any build you like and you always have the option to respec your character?
Love this video and love to hear someone talk positive about the game and not just shit on it like everyone else. Few problems I had with it (LOVED the game by the way and replaying it now)
1. There was no true dialogue choices. I couldn't really smooth talk my way out of things. Just added a little flavor i felt
2. No faction system with the gangs. They essentially were just the bosses of that region. Factions with the gangs would've been so much better
The reason you love Cyperpunk 2077, is about exactly the same reason why I love Diablo 3. You went wizard, but you wanna go a heavy blumt weapon build? No problems you can switch your skills and items into exact that.
A problem that you did not really mention.
The game doesn't "force" you to play a playstyle even in the hardest difficulty. That's a problem. I beat the game dumping all skills at getting more money and crafting without ever crafting or buying new gear.
That's a HUGE problem because yes the game "believes" you are who you are but it doesn't matter, at all. You can literally be rando nobody for the same result. That breaks the immersion in a HUGE way for a RPG.
To the point i feel the game is barely a RPG, instead i think it's Farcry 2077
Very interesting
I agree with on what makes an rbg system great, but in cyberpunk in particular the perks and bounses you get are very underwhelming which didn't really motivate me to grind any of it
"BuT gUyS cYbErPuNk 2077 IsN'T eVeN aN rPg" – some troglodyte in the comments, probably.
This really highlights one of the number one reason I think I end up not being able to finish games lately. I go in making my character and spending a long time really trying to flesh out how I want to play and really end up just making a best guess as how I would make that. It's not until mid game that you understand what really matters and how systems work that you realize you fundamentally screwed up your design so you "have" to start over. After doing that so many times because you find flaws in the next start you kinda get burnt out and just never want to finish.
Not being able to try all the styles of late game builds kinda sucks when you need 20 body for something but stopped at 6 and now I'm capped at level 50 with no more attributes to unlock
So can you give this presentation to ghostcrawler and co when they make the new riot mmo? Hope they do something similar to this, and also agree that skills increasing due to being used, is definitely the best.
This was amazing. Thanks so much for your insight. I hadn't really sat with and analyzed these details before but I agree with your findings, very thoughtfully put forth! I'd love to see more game design (deep) dives and critiques like this!
Phreak mentioning anything D&D related is my new favorite ASMR
Great video, I agree I did enjoy the actual system of level up and point allocation it did feel a lot more open and intelligible. Plus any game that let's me read about every skill in the game before I start dumping points are always my favorite, like the borderlands series
The big problem with the RPG design is sticking to MMO RPG design – leveling, arbitrary points to assign to arbitrary things, etc. Especially when they have the two best systems for a single player RPG already in place (then underutilized). Skill advancement when you use the skill (improve by doing) and cybernetic enhancements. Both should have completely replaced leveling, attribute bumps, etc. And leveling of enemies to your character is just… meh. Far better to have more of a Morrowind system where the enemies are what they are. If you want to take on a tougher challenge then you need to train you skills, acquire the cybernetics, and get the gear. That super cyber ninja I face should not magically becomes stronger or weaker because I've acquired random XP points.
Hey Phreak, great video and thanks for making it. I find it sad and troubling that coverage of CP77 is overwhelmingly negative and most of that noise is coming from people dunking on the game without having actually played the game. I have about 525 hours in the game (some amount of that was spent afk, sure, but the point still stands). I haven’t been this engrossed and captivated by an RPG game ever. I think the issues and controversies around the game have just made it so people refuse to try the game and will argue with you and levy personal attacks at you if you try to defend the game. Thanks again Phreak for another great video, and I’m happy that you enjoy the game too.
I bought it, and if I can ever get my hands on a new graphics card I’ll be able to play it… some day.
I don't mind the RPG system, but its clear that about half of the perks in any given skill tree are underwhelming. This means in effect there are actually relatively few engaging choices for perks each time an attribute is levelled.
My biggest gripe about systems in Cyberpunk 2077 is that gameplay balance only feels right if players stick to the main questline and narratively important side questlines. Should players engage in much open-world content (side jobs from fixers or NCPD scanner jobs), they very quickly overlevel and combat becomes trivial on highest difficulty. This is especially true with the interaction of the RPG system and gear bonuses for stealth or netrunner focused builds. It wouldn't be the first game that didn't consider the interactions of player level and gear in game balance, and its common in many RPGs that one can overlevel by "minmaxing", but it feels more egregious in settings closer to our current reality.
Very interesting take Phreak. I'd like to add that another way of solving the problem of breaking your character during character creation, is to simply have a good respec mechanic. Cyberpunk has a good overall system for dealing with this, but I think no game in recent memory does it better than Divinity: Original Sin 2. In that game, you can completely respec at pretty much any point during the game for no cost whatsoever. Allowing for virtually endless experimentation, until you settle on what works for you. D:OS 2 is an amazing game and I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who enjoys RPGs.
Great vid, the point about wasteland at the start really touched me that game will remain incomplete for a long while.
I agree with a lot of your analysis, but the big thing that bugs me is that the armor stat is completely opaque and durability / combat balance seems way off.
I've got almost 2000 armor with my tech/stealth/hacking build, after investing pretty heavily into crafting legendary armor and armor mods, but I felt forced down the stealth tree because even with all the investment in durability I still get 1 shot by a shotgun from across the street held by a green npc. I tried hand to hand and blades but could never use them in practice because I have always died in a second or less after combat starts.
Maybe my game is just bugged, or maybe I didn't put enough time into blades early enough or enough points into body to get durability, or maybe I just shouldn't have played on hard, but that's my point – it's completely a black box with meaningless numbers exposed to me. Weirdly move speed seems to be a MUCH better defensive stat than armor or health because it seems to affect npcs aim which at least gives you SOME survivability